I wrote a
long article early on in the blog about trigger control.
The rifle I was using then had a superb feeling trigger. It was one of those glass rod type things, I
would say just under 3 lbs. The trigger
on my current rifle, the FN PBR-XP is about 3.5 lbs with a bit of pre travel. Some might call it creep. It demands that I have good trigger
discipline and will not accept anything less than what it wants.
Here’s
what seems to work the best, the best being I see no reticle movement as the
trigger breaks during dry fire.
The second
joint is as close to 90° as I can get it.
The first joint is relaxed. This
seems to result in a pretty good technique for the Glock as well.
Here is a
photo without the rifle in the way:
The
camera angle makes it look like I’m right on the fingertip, but I tend to stay
in roughly the center of the pad.
This is
what I’ve been trying for on all my rifles for a while now. Since trigger control is one of those major
components of marksmanship, I will compromise other things to make it just
right. In a perfect world in which the
government supplied everyone with a special rifle fitted exactly to their body,
we wouldn’t have to make any compromises.
As it sits now, only the privileged 1% can afford to have such a special
rifle. Perhaps if the poor could reduce
the size of their flatscreens from 60” to 50” and sacrifice just one marinated
steak per month, we could get our rifles fitted.
In lieu of
a fitted rifle, here is what I do instead:
I use my
fingers to stand my grip off the pistol grip sufficiently to make the trigger
technique work like it should. I’m sure
it creates its own issues, but the problem it solves is more significant in my
opinion.
I’m still
working on my trigger work. I believe it’s
one of those things you can never be complacent with.
You are onto something here, Rifleslinger.
ReplyDeleteI think this is how trigger management needs to be taught.
Start out with finger placement on the trigger, then how that individual has to place his hand on the stock to maintain that finger placement.
I have big paws, none of my rifles allow me to utilize the pistol grip by just wrapping my hand around it.
Yah! Really like the sound of this! So different to my rather haphazard approach of placing my trigger finger 'best I can' after wrapping the grip with my palm, thumb and other fingers.
ReplyDeleteIn dry-fire (with an SMLE) good advantage was apparent right off the bat - it seems that this 'right-angle' finger technique is much more conducive to the 'surprise break', something that still does not come easily to this shooter. Exciting stuff then.
A question which comes directly to mind, not having had much of a go at it yet, is, do you foresee any 'repetitive strain' issues - it seems like an 'un-natural' position for the trigger finger to be held in while also being called upon to execute a very controlled press (though, it may quickly come to feel perfectly natural given a little practice).
Just thoughts at this stage as really I must put a bit of time in myself - but as always interested to hear your reasoning.
cheers and thanks!
jonno
I haven't thought about anything like tendonitis or anything from trigger manipulation. I have given it though in reference to bolt work. It's something I have had problems with from playing guitar, but I don't think the manipulation on a rifle is in the same ballpark as sixteenth notes at 208 BPM sustained for 3-4 minutes.
DeletePost a video of that :)
DeleteI have some old VHS videos tucked away somewhere...
DeleteRS,
ReplyDeleteI set my finger up the same way on my bolt guns...which means that none of my guns are held quite the same way. I'm pretty frustrated with bolt gun stocks, and vastly prefer AR ergonomics for this and other reasons.
I agree that the AR with a MOE grip pretty much puts the finger there with no effort. The frustrating thing is that it wouldn't be hard to design a stock that would be good on a sporting rifle and put the finger in the right spot. Something like a McMillan Baker Special, which is a rounded pistol grip that begins in line with the length of the stock and curves down to vertical.
DeleteThe grip on the TRG is more vertical than even an AR grip, but it's just a little too far back, maybe an eighth to a quarter inch, but it still works pretty well.
I think that the Manners T or T3 could be pretty close, but I've never done more than ogle them on the computer screen, so I can't say for sure.
I have the MCS-T on a 700. Not great. I find the Micky HTG to be reasonable, and look forward to trying the Micky scout in a couple of weeks. I may just switch to a 6.8spc AR as my all around gun...
DeleteI'll take a look at the Baker Special tomorrow, maybe snap a pic.
DeleteI have spent many hours on match rifle stock fit and a lot of that time was on the grip angle and shape to allow the trigger pull to be straight back without having to do anything special as far as grip. That is a much harder thing to get right on a rifle that will be fired from more than one position. I got a chance to play with a new 10-22 target rifle today and my first thought while shooting off hand was how I was going to modify the grip so I could get a repeatable trigger pull. For me it seems just removing some material to keep the second and third joints of the trigger finger from "dragging" on the grip will do the trick. I always thought the McGee style ATC stock was perfect. Maybe this link will work,http://www.mcgeestocks.com/stockpopups/straighttaper.html
ReplyDeleteStill haven't tried the new sling yet, I may change the sling swivels on the new 10-22 to posts and test it on that. The weather won't cooperate for hunting anyway.
Happy new year!
That stock does what I tried to describe in my comment above. The pistol grip on my FN's stock is shaped similarly, but is a few inches too far back.
DeleteJust for grins check David Tubbs rifles basically a AR-Bolt gun ,lots research and development went into it,may be why it cost the same as a used pickup
ReplyDelete1. I also do something very similar on non-pistol-grip stocks like you are doing in the picture. I find it critical to have the index finger and wrist at a 90 degree angle to the trigger, so this sometimes means gripping the stock at weird angles. It kind of depends on the shooting positions as well, my prone grip is a little different from standing, etc. But over time, as with anything, that grip comes to feel natural. I work with those hand-grippers exercisers to develop good strength and endurance in my hands...so even I'm sort of hanging on with finger tips I've got a good hold.
ReplyDelete2. I find that with a heavier trigger, be it a rifle or revolver, there is nothing wrong with pulling the trigger with the first joint or even below the first joint of the trigger finger. I have read many top shooters do this, and some even criticize using the pad for various reasons. With a really light trigger I use the pad. But the bottom line is, as you point out, everyone's hand is different so trial and error is key to figure out what works for you with that particular gun. In scandanavia a lot of shooters work their bolt with the index finger and are actually pulling the trigger with the middle finger.
3. By far a pistol grip stock or similar design makes life so much easier. A more economical approach to a Tubb Gun (T2K) is Gary Eliseo's stocks which take a variety of actions, most commonly though the R700. http://www.gotxring.com/ Not quite as adjustable as the T2K but close. They take standard AR style grips, but you can get a wood one and add bondo or other putty until you get it perfect for your hand if you can't find an after-market grip that gets it done. I have an Eliseo stock with a used wood grip made by Doan Trevor, really happy with it. I basically just had a gunsmith throw my existing barreled R700 into it, he just has to swap out the recoil lug with a sort of disk that comes with the stock.
What RS describes is the best general way to position the hand/finger in relationship to the trigger. Probably most of us on here aren't able to afford a specially fitted stock, so we necessarily have to adapt to what we have. I'll bet most of us have more than one rifle. My bolt rifle requires a bit different approach than my lever actions. The AR style pistol grip requires a different adaptation than the M1 or M1A. I keep the manner of addressing the trigger with the finger (on the pad) as consistent as possible and rotate my hand on the grip (according to grip type) so that I can maintain it. I have small hands and stubby fingers, so none of this works perfectly with differing types, but it does keep trigger control similar enough to have workable consistency.
ReplyDeleteIn my dry practice sessions I utilize a number of drills, but I always finish up with about 10 pulls just to be sure I am positively reinforcing proper trigger manipulation and follow through.
Happy New Year
One more thing...rubbery tennis racket grip tape from walmart (actually pink!) has proven an excellent way to help with my grip on the K98, gives my finger tips a little extra to bite into since to accommodate my ideal trigger pull the stock is not deep in my palm. Also absorbs moisture/sweat on a hot day, and just overall feels better. Yeah it's pink, but it works!
ReplyDeleteIf I had not already put a piece of moleskin on the comb, I would try wrapping the entire comb in the rubbery grip tape too for a more comfortable cheek weld and a little bit of recoil dampening.